Joe List is a nationally renowned stand-up comedian who has appeared on The Late Show, Conan, and Comedy Central’s The Half Hour, among other shows. But he freely admits that it took him getting sober to achieve this success.
List began performing stand-up at age 18 and had his first drink just weeks after his first open mic. But within a few years, his drinking began to spiral out of control. A pair of highly embarrassing incidents, combined with moments of going on stage in a blackout, all served as the eventual catalyst for him to quit drinking.
Now 33 and sober for over three years, List tours the country performing and is gearing up to release an album with Comedy Central Records. He spoke exclusively with The Fix about remaining sober in bar-fueled venues, how sobriety helped his comedy and how the program he works allowed him to become less resentful of his peers in the comedy scene.
When did your drinking first begin?
I started at what I consider to be a late age. I started several months into my 18th birthday, so kind of like a poet. I was drinking pretty regularly at 19 and then it started getting out of control when I was 20. But I had no drinks in high school.
I started comedy before I started alcohol, but I had only been doing open mics for about a month before I started drinking. During my first two years or so of comedy, I never drank before going on stage. Then slowly it became having a couple of drinks before going on stage and then I’d go up in a blackout.
Would you say the two-year mark was when things started to spiral out of hand?
I’d say so, probably two or three years. But it’s hard because then you’re just a heavy drinker. A lot of people at 21 are drinking like that. I always hung out with really heavy drinker or alcoholics. When you’re hanging out with active alcoholics, you tend to think, “That guy’s worse than me. And he has kids and he’s drinking like that!”
Was there a specific moment when you knew something had to change or did it happen naturally?
I knew for years that I’d have to stop eventually. I knew that normal people didn’t drink to the extent that I was and I didn’t want to be doing this when I was 50. And I knew people who were sober and in the program, so I just thought that maybe I’ll be one of those guys. I had a few moments that were definite indicators. I blacked out and shit in a girl’s shoe on a first date. I peed on her rug and shit all over her house in a complete blackout. And then I fell through her kitchen table and shattered it. But I remember thinking the next day, “I shouldn’t drink tonight. I’ll take the night off and get it together.” And then I ended up drinking that night. That was definitely a moment of, “I am a fuck-up. I am a piece of human garbage.” And I kept going for a couple of years after that.
Then I got herpes when I was drunk and thought that now I have this because of my decision-making. I first started to get sober after that, but lasted about eight days and then went back at it. It’s interesting because when I did stop, there wasn’t really an event. I was with a friend and just stopped. It was pretty magical, to be honest.
We’ve lost so many talented comics over the years because of drug and alcohol addiction. Why do you think substance abuse is so prevalent in the comedy industry?
It’s sort of the like the chicken and the egg. Are we drunks because we’re comics or vice-versa? There’s obviously a lot of access to alcohol and a lot of isolation and loneliness if you’re working the road, which was the case with a lot of comics we have lost. It sounds cliché, but you’re chasing the high that you get where you’re on stage and that’s only 45 minutes or an hour. You still have the other 23 hours in the day. I think a lot of comedians are smart, deep thinkers. They have this thought of, “Eh, we’re all going to die.” I did that too and would just come up with reasons to drink. By the way, a lot of comedians are not deep thinkers [laughs]. But a lot of them are, and that can lead to depression and then lead to drinking.
You’ve mentioned that you used to be resentful of your peers getting their big break before you, but that quitting drinking helped with that. How so?
Like a lot of alcoholics, I thought that things were happening to me. I thought that the industry was trying to prevent me from succeeding and they just picked everyone over me. It was such a victim mentality. Someone would pass me or get more success and I would think, “That fucking asshole. I used to show him how to do comedy.” But when you get sober and work the steps, you start to look at where you’re at fault. And I just realized that I wasn’t working hard enough. The industry definitely has people they choose to try and push, but there’s no one that they’re choosing to keep from doing well. Sobriety really helped me recognize this.
Because you’re often performing for drunk people or places where alcohol plays a prominent role, does it ever complicate things for you?
Occasionally, but not too much now. I go to meetings and I meditate and stay aware of the consequences. And all of my success in comedy has come since I’ve gotten sober, so it’s a constant reminder of where I was before and where I am now. There’s the old adage of thinking about the last drunk instead of the first drink. There are times when I think it would be nice to have a beer, but I know that it leads to me hating myself and shitting in girls’ shoes and getting incurable STDs. So I don’t struggle too much. I’ve never white-knuckled it, but of course that can change at any moment. I have to keep doing things to keep me where I’m at mentally.
How did sobriety improve your comedy?
It allowed to me work harder and focus on the work, and also just focus on what I was doing instead of what everyone else was doing. That was a big thing for me. It just took away so much of the obsession with alcohol and drinking and self-hatred, which opened up a lot of space to focus on being funny and being a good comedian, as well as just a good friend and boyfriend. There’s this belief that comedians have to be struggling and be tortured, but I’ve always been more productive and funnier when I’m feeling good. When I get down or depressed, I can’t do anything. I’m not funny at all. It’s so important for me to be in a good space.
Especially in New York City, there are a growing number of sober comics. Is there any camaraderie among them or are you aware of who they are?
I’m aware of a bunch of them, so there’s camaraderie there. And there’s definitely a lot of reaching out. I’ve made calls to two sober comics so far today. My fiancée is a sober comic as well, so I’m around at least one sober comic every day. This might sound elitist, but I thought this even when I was drinking: Some of the kindest and most thoughtful people I know have gone through the program. They’re program people. Obviously there’s a lot of great people who aren’t, but I think the program causes you to do a lot of self-searching and I like to think that makes you a better person.
What are some of the things that have worked for you in your sobriety?
I go to meetings. I should go to a lot of more, but I guess that’s all of us. I keep in touch with sober people and do a lot of gratitude lists. I do a lot of comparing where I was before and where I am now. Not just with comedy, but personally and in my relationships. I spend a lot of time remembering where I was financially, mentally and professionally at 25 and where I a. That’s a huge help for me. Meditation has definitely helped as well. I do a lot of laying, sitting and walking meditation. Just trying to live mindfully, stay in the moment when I can, and realize how grateful I am and how good my life is.